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New Ticking sound

New Ticking sound

Postby kushog [OP] » Aug 24 2012, 1:40pm

I just had new pistons and rings installed due to the amount of oil consumption that my truck had. Now when i start my truck after it has been sitting for awhile I hear a ticking sound for about 2-3 seconds. Is this normal?
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Related Topics  Ticking sound in engine   Ticking sound and oil pressure sensor off code after floorin   Loud ticking   Need help! Ticking problem!   Ticking noise   Another 5.3 ticking post   Rough idle and ticking   loud ticking noise   constant ticking noise.   Ticking & Tapping Fixed!!!!!!!   Another *ticking* noise started today   2011 5.3 ticking noisy injectors?   Lifter just started tapping or ticking   Tapping/ticking when starting my truck in the cold. 
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New Ticking sound

Postby Machster69 » Aug 24 2012, 1:55pm

Normal, mine will rattle/tick for about 2 seconds twice a month ide say... and if it does it once, it seems to do it again then next morning then nothing for a while... then it will come back... no damage!


#01-06-01-028B: Engine Knock on Cold Start - (Oct 3, 2011)
Subject: Engine Knock on Cold Start

Models: 1999-2002 Chevrolet and GMC C/K Pickup and Utility Models

2002 Cadillac Escalade (2WD)

Equipped with 4.8L, 5.3L or 6.0L Engine (RPOs LR4, LM7, L59, LQ4)

2007-2012 Cadillac Escalade Models

2007-2012 Chevrolet Silverado

2007-2012 GMC Sierra, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL Denali

Equipped with 6.2L Engine (RPOs L92, L94, L9H)


This bulletin is being revised to update the Models section. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-028A (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System).

Some of the above vehicles may exhibit an engine knock noise that begins in the first 19,000-24,000♦km (12,000-15,000♦mi) of use. The knock noise is most often noticed during initial start-up and typically disappears within the first 5-30♦seconds (may last longer in extreme cold temperatures). The noise is usually more noticeable on the initial start-up when the temperature is below 10°C (50°F) and may be more pronounced on the first cold start following a long trip.
This noise may be caused by an interaction between carbon that has formed on the piston, the piston motion and the cylinder wall. GM Powertrain Engineering, and an analysis of engines with this condition, has confirmed that the noise is not detrimental to the performance, reliability or durability of the engine. THIS NOISE DOES NOT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE LONGEVITY OF ANY OF THE ENGINE COMPONENTS.
Important: At this time, attempts to repair this condition by replacing the engine assembly or pistons are not recommended.
Please share the information found in this bulletin with customers who inquire about this condition. In the event they have additional questions or concerns, please advise your District Manager Aftersales (U.S.) (in Canada, District Manager - Customer Care and Service Process (DM-CCSP).
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby Machster69 » Aug 24 2012, 2:01pm

Here is your original TSB
I would like to make a note here real quick for a common asked question...

(cast iron block engines are less prone to the AFM oil spray condition described earlier)


#10-06-01-008D: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block/Iron Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder) - (Jan 17, 2012)
Subject: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block/Iron Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder)

Models: 2007-2010 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT

2007-2010 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado 1500, Suburban, Tahoe

2010 Chevrolet Camaro

2007-2010 GMC Sierra 1500, Sierra Denali, Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL

2008-2009 Pontiac G8 GT

Equipped with Aluminum Block V8 Engine with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (RPOs L94, LZ1, L99, LC9, LH6, L76, LFA, L92)

RPO LFA (Hybrid Engine) ONLY – Built After July 7, 2009

or Equipped with Iron Block V8 Engine with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (RPOs LMG, LY5)

Attention: This bulletin does not apply to the Buick Rainier, Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Envoy equipped with LH6 due to a different design oil pan and AFM pressure relief valve.

This bulletin is being revised to update the parts information to include the oil pan gasket. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-008C (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System).


Condition


Some customers may comment about engine oil consumption of vehicles with higher mileage (approximately 48,000 to 64,000 km (30,000 to 40,000 mi). Verify that the PCV system is functioning properly. If diagnostic procedures indicate that oil consumption is piston/piston ring related, verify that oil consumption is greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi). If these conditions are met and oil consumption is greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi), perform the service indicated in this bulletin.

Cause


This condition may be caused by two conditions. Oil pulled through the PCV system or oil spray that is discharged from the AFM pressure relief valve within the crankcase. Under most driving conditions and drive cycles, the discharged oil does not cause a problem. Under certain drive cycles (extended high engine speed operation), in combination with parts at the high end of their tolerance specification, the oil spray quantity may be more than usual, resulting in excessive deposit formation in the piston ring grooves, causing increased oil consumption.

Correction

Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.04.41 AM.png
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.04.41 AM.png (134.63 KiB) Viewed 5491 times



1) Old Design
2) New Design
PCV pullover or an overactive lifter can cause oil to be pulled through the PCV system even at low vehicle mileage. A correctly functioning PCV system will only leave a film of oil in the intake manifold. Inspect the intake manifold to see if there is any oil puddling in the bottom. If there is you will need to replace the Left valve cover. Two new left rocker arm covers have been released for trucks and vans. Technicians should replace the left rocker arm cover with GM P/N 12570427 for 2007-2008 or GM P/N 12642655 for 2009-2010. Refer to the Parts Information below for the Camaro. This rocker arm cover has a relocated PCV drain hole that prevents oil from entering the intake manifold. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement - Left Side in SI.

Note: These rocker covers are for specific years. The PCV orifice is different for each. The correct cover must be used or an SES light may set.

AFM – Oil Getting by Piston Rings – Aluminum Block
To correct this condition, perform the piston cleaning procedure as described in this document and install the new oil pan gasket per the procedure outlined in this document. Monitor oil consumption after this repair to ensure oil consumption has improved to acceptable levels.
If this repair does not correct the condition, it may be necessary to replace all of the piston assemblies (piston and rings) with new parts. Refer to SI for repair procedure.
Important: It is critical in this cleaning process that the engine/fuel injector cleaner remain in the cylinders for a minimum of 2.5 hours to fully clean the components. The cleaner solution must be removed before a maximum of three hours.
1 Verify the oil consumption concern following Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011G. If oil consumption is found, continue on with this bulletin.

2 Remove the spark plugs and ensure that none of the pistons are at top dead center (TDC).

3 Clean the pistons by putting 118-147 ml (4-5 oz) of Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, GM P/N 88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804), in each cylinder. Allow the material to soak for at least 2.5-3.0 hours, but no more than three hours and then remove the cleaner. A suggested method of removing the cleaner is cranking the engine over. Make sure to unplug the ignition coils and fuel injector before cranking the engine over. Also make sure that the painted surfaces are covered so no damage is done.

4 Remove the oil pan. Refer to Oil Pan Replacement in SI.
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.04.53 AM.png
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.04.53 AM.png (165.41 KiB) Viewed 5491 times


          
          
5 Remove the AFM valve (1).
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.05.05 AM.png
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.05.05 AM.png (138.43 KiB) Viewed 5491 times


          
          
6 Install the new shield (1), GM P/N 12639759, and tighten the AFM valve to the oil pan to 28 N·m (20 lb ft).

Important: Ensure that the engine cleaner is thoroughly removed before reinstalling the spark plugs. Failure to do so may result in a hydro-lock condition.

7 Reinstall the spark plugs. Replace the spark plugs if necessary due to full of carbon. Refer to the parts catalog.

8 Reinstall the oil pan. Refer to the Oil Pan Installation procedure in SI. Replace the oil pan gasket if necessary. Refer to the parts catalog. Replace the engine oil.

9 Re-evaluate the oil consumption. Document on the repair order. If the oil consumption is still greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi), replacement of the pistons and rings will be required.

Note: It is not necessary to hone or deglaze the cylinder walls. Honing may induce unnecessary cylinder wall and / or piston ring damage if it is done incorrectly and/or not cleaned thoroughly. Cylinder walls should cleaned thoroughly with brake cleaner before installation of the new pistons and rings. Numerous engines replaced for oil consumption have been inspected. The cross hatch has been consistently good and is in specification. As a result, is should not be necessary to measure the cylinders if they pass the visual inspection.

Cast Iron Block – Oil Getting Past Rings
1 Verify the oil consumption concern following Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011G. If oil consumption is found, continue on with this bulletin.

2 Remove the spark plugs and ensure that none of the pistons are at top dead center (TDC).

3 Clean the pistons by putting 118-147 ml (4-5 oz) of Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, GM P/N 88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804), in each cylinder. Allow the material to soak for at least 2.5-3.0 hours, but no more than three hours and then remove the cleaner. A suggested method of removing the cleaner is cranking the engine over. Make sure to unplug the ignition coils and fuel injector before cranking the engine over. Also make sure that the painted surfaces are covered so no damage is done.

Important: Ensure that the engine cleaner is thoroughly removed before reinstalling the spark plugs. Failure to do so may result in a hydro-lock condition.

4 Reinstall the spark plugs. Replace the spark plugs if necessary due to full of carbon. Refer to the parts catalog.

5 Re-evaluate the oil consumption. Document on the repair order. If the oil consumption is still greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi), replacement of the pistons and rings will be required.


Note: It is not necessary to install the shield when doing the piston cleaning on a cast iron block engine since the cast iron block engine uses a different oil pump than an aluminum block engine, which results in a higher engine speed before the AFM pressure relief valve opens (cast iron block engines are less prone to the AFM oil spray condition described earlier). If you find it necessary to replace the pistons, only then should you add the shield.
Screen shot 2012-08-24 at 8.05.15 AM.png






Important: Some minor scratches may be noticed on the cylinder walls during piston and ring replacement. If the scratch cannot be felt when running your finger nail over it, the scratch is considered normal wear and the block or engine should not be replaced.

Parts Information



Part Number 
Description 
Qty

12639759 
DEFLECTOR-OIL PRESS RLF VLV (quantity of 3 per order) 
1

88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804) 
CLEANER, F/INJR 16 OZ LIQUID POUR (Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner) 
3

12612350 
GASKET, OIL PAN 
1

12642655 
COVER ASM-VLV RKR ARM (2009-2010 Truck Models Only) 
1

12570427 
COVER ASM-VLV RKR ARM (2007-2008 Truck Model Only) 
1

12642655 
COVER ASM-VLV RKR ARM (2010 Camaro) 
1

12610768 
PCV Tube (2010 Camaro) 
1

 

Warranty Information


For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:


Labor Operation 
Description 
Labor Time

J7555* 
Install AFM Oil Deflector, Rocker Arm Cover- Left Bank and Clean Carbon from Cylinder (Aluminum Block V8)

(RPOs L94, LZ1, L99, LC9, LH6, L76, LFA, L92) 
4.1 hrs

Clean Carbon from Cylinder and Install Rocker Arm Cover - Left Bank (Cast Iron Block V8)

(RPOs LMG, LY5) 
2.6 hrs

Install AFM Oil Deflector, Rocker Arm Cover- Left Bank and Clean Carbon from Cylinder (4WD) 
5.1 hrs

Install AFM Oil Deflector, Rocker Arm Cover- Left Bank and Clean Carbon from Cylinder (G8 Only) 
11.0 hrs

*This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.

 

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer".  They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle.  Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely.  If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition.  See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.  WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby kushog [OP] » Aug 24 2012, 3:06pm

The dealer just called me and said that they will be replacing the lifters as they might of been damaged a bit when the piston and rings were replaced. I am pleased that they are not saying that it is normal as they did not make this sound before.
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby Machster69 » Aug 24 2012, 3:11pm

I think they knew they might have damaged something....

#10-06-01-007C: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace Valve Lifters) - (Feb 9, 2011)
Subject: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace Valve Lifters)

Models: 2007 Buick Rainier

2009 Buick LaCrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)

2007 Cadillac Escalade

Built Prior to April 1, 2006 with 6.2L Engine RPO L92 (These engines were built with AFM Hardware but the AFM system was disabled)

2010-2011 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT

2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala

2007-2011 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT

2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS

2007-2011 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL, Yukon XL Denali

2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix

2008-2009 Pontiac G8

2007-2009 Saab 9-7X

Equipped with AFM (Active Fuel Management) and V8 Engine RPO L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5 or LZ1


This bulletin only applies to the AFM V8 engines listed above. It DOES NOT apply to Non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a Non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, please refer to Engine Mechanical > Diagnostic Information and Procedures > Symptoms in SI. This bulletin is being revised to add models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-007B (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System).


Condition


Some customers may comment on an engine valve lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been shut off for at least two hours. The tick noise may last from two seconds to ten minutes.

Cause


This condition may be caused by any of the following:
•  Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.

•  A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.

•  Dirty or contaminated oil.

•  A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.

•  Debris in the valve lifter.

•  A high valve lifter leak down rate.

Correction


If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this valve lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following steps:
1 Inspect the engine oil condition and level. Refer to Owner Manual > Service and Appearance Care > Checking Things Under the Hood > Description and Operation > Engine Oil in SI.

⇒ If the engine oil is more than one quart low, an incorrect oil viscosity is being used or if poor quality/contamination is observed, change the oil and filter.

Note: Allow at least a two hour soak time between engine OFF and start up when evaluating the tick noise.
2 Start the engine and evaluate the valve lifter tick noise.

⇒ If the valve lifter tick noise is still present, replace all 16 valve lifters. Refer to Valve Lifter Replacement in SI.

Parts Information


Note: A V8 AFM engine requires 8 AFM lifters and 8 non-AFM lifters for a total of 16 lifters.


Part Number 
Description 
Qty

12576400 
Non AFM Hydraulic Valve Lifter 
8

12632143 
AFM Hydraulic Valve Lifter 
8

 

Warranty Information (excluding Saab Models)


For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:


Labor Operation 
Description 
Labor Time

J0627 
Valve Lifter Replacement - Both Sides 
Use Published Labor Operation Time

 

Warranty Information (Saab Models)


For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:


Saab Labor Operation 
Description 
Failed Object 
Fault/Reason Code 
Location Code 
Warranty Type 
Repair/Action Code 
STM Labor Time

21421-12 
Replace part, Depressor 
21421 
40 
5 
1 
01 (Replace) 
Use Published STM Labor Operation Time

 

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer".  They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle.  Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely.  If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition.  See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.  WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby Machster69 » Aug 24 2012, 3:13pm

I find it very humorous how one "tick" they have a bulletin calling it normal, then another "tick" requires 16 lifters be replaced lol! That is just as invasive as piston changes...
But the noise at startup is very normal... being that you have already opened the heart up on that motor I agree with you with letting them work on it. On a truck like mine, I am not going to let them open it when the noise has been there, and then "damage" something else like they say they "might" have accidentally on yours... I bet they knew they didnt get it "right" and now that you have said something, they will try again. That or they are milking GM for money :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby kushog [OP] » Aug 24 2012, 3:51pm

I just want my truck to be fixed properly and if that means new lifters then change them. At least they're not giving me the run around.
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New Ticking sound

Postby Machster69 » Aug 24 2012, 3:59pm

Cant blame you for that bro. And very true, at least they are willing to do the work. Ide stick with that dealer if I was you... Seems like alot of them never want to do any work? You might have a keeper.. Good luck on the repair!
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby kushog [OP] » Aug 24 2012, 4:04pm

I have had my fair share of disputes with them up until this point and maybe they see that they can't pull the wool over my eyes. But anyways they seem to be accomodating.
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Re: New Ticking sound

Postby Red Green » Aug 24 2012, 7:24pm

Has the oil consumption problem been fixed in 2011 and newer models?
2011 Silverado LT Ext Cab 4x4 w/All Star Options
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