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Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Tuning and Warranty Test Results
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Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby MIKE91B [OP] » Nov 01 2019, 4:37pm

So I have conducted a few tests of my own. My main goal was to determine how traceable tuning was relative to our trucks with only the LS and LT engines in mind. They are the only ones still under warranty and relative to this conversation. I have the equipment to extract what GM considers expectable proof of aftermarket calibrations and therefore deny a warranty claim and or apply a warranty block to a specific VIN # for powertrain claims. The reason for this was first and foremost how can the system be cheated and how are some companies clamming it is not traceable. According to GM you could not beat the system. Turns out you can on some ECM's but not on others. I'm not out to bust anyone with simple bolt-ons but rather trying to make sure I never got in trouble for slamming a motor in a truck that had a blower on it, cracked a ring land, and ate a cylinder wall. Not to mention this stuff is fun to me. So I bought a DiabloSport Intune and proceeded to conduct my own tests on what I could see. I'll break this up into a few parts to help make sense of it all.

1. What is required and what is the process when a powertrain failure is diagnosed at the dealership?

As I read the latest version of the bulletin about checking and submitting it clearly states that the only time the calibrations need to be confirmed is when an ENGINE hard part failure or Engine replacement is suspected. At that time the ECM and only the ECM calibrations need to be verified as GM calibrations. In short at no time do trans failures and or any drive line failures require DOCUMENTATION of GM engine calibrations. However, GM does strongly recommend verifying proper calibrations if any suspect situation is at hand.

The process is simple for checking the calibrations. For 2013 and older trucks we use the Tech2 and go into the ECM and into module information and it will list the calibrations with a Calibration Verification Number(CVN). You would then compare the numbers with what is listed in Service Programming Systems Calibration Information page in TIS2WEB. There will be a few calibrations for different parts of the ECM, i.e. engine diagnostics, engine operation, and slave functions. There is more than 3 but you get the point. Match the numbers and move on. Now the fun part. 2014 and newer have a little trip wire in the ECM. Not only do they need the calibration numbers and CVN to line up but also the calibration event counter must align.
The newer ECMs can count every calibration event and can retain the last 10 events for review using GDS2. After the numbers are pulled and verified the information can be sent to GM for verification and if GM finds them to be altered it will then be sent to a brand quality manager and they make the final call. They are also to contact all parties involved with the ruling. That is the process as outlined by GM.

2. Now I will talk about the 2014 and newer trip wires.

The calibration event history counter will record every time the ECM is flashed. It will record a calibration number and a CVN. The latest addition to this Is when SPS is used to program a module they require a repair order number alongside the vin to perform programming. In short they will know every time the ECM is flashed using the GM SPS site. This is a new thing that started in the last few months. It's the external way of verifying the calibrations have not been altered by keeping a count.


3. What are the tuners doing to the calibrations, CVN, and the calibration event history counter?

On the 2013 and older Diablo extracts the calibrations alter it for desired results and then flash the ECM with the same calibration numbers and the same CVN. In theory you can’t get caught unless the file is extracted and reviewed. Gm only looks at the CVN and calibration numbers. We can not send in the file.

Now for the 2014 and newer. It's all the same, BUT the calibration event history recorder is looked at to check for proper calibration numbers and CVN’s. We also see how many times it's has been flashed. Diablo still displays the same calibration number, and the same CVN, but it looks slightly suspect when the same calibration has been programmed more than 2 times in a row. Then we go back to the need to enter a repair order # every time a module is programmed.

This is the trip up on the new trucks. GM can tell if they programmed the module or not. That will only be known if the calibration history is emailed to GM. The dealerships can’t tell if the calibration in the ECM has been altered past the calibration numbers and the CVN’s.

Now what does HPTuners do? They could give a **** less. They alter CVN and it is traceable all day long.


*Conclusion*

I tested this with a DiabloSport Intune, and I have seen this on customer's vehicles that's how I came to my findings. I caught a guy about a month ago and he admitted to me that he had been using a tuner. He had a trans problem so we fixed his vehicle under warranty. I'm not going into the legal side of this as I'm a technician, not a lawyer. There is a ton of grey area in this. I just tried to provide the facts as to GM's procedures and what I have seen the tuners do.
The 2013 and older trucks can get away with this all day long from what I have seen. The 2014 and newer can still hide a lot of it but they will raise red flags if the information is emailed to GM. My opinion is DiabloSport is still the way to go for 99% of people. I hope this helps some of you and if you have questions feel free to ask but this is what I know to be true as of today.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby ferraiolo1 » Nov 01 2019, 4:46pm

Another very intelligent and informative post by mike!

Thanks for going though all that.

Does afm collapse and cam wipe out constitute as a major engine issue?


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SierraHarley: So lets gets this straight.... your opinion is people shouldn't post their opinions and people should be able to do whatever they want although you're telling people that have a difference of opinion what they should do?
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby MIKE91B [OP] » Nov 01 2019, 4:53pm

Technically yes but calibrations almost never get checked unless a motor is being replaced or if we suspect tampering. Grey area is the best answer for that.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby GBSierraSLE » Nov 01 2019, 4:53pm

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to do the research and post it here.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby 19trax95 » Nov 01 2019, 4:54pm

Excellent post! Very informative.

This definitely will clear up a LOT of questions for a LOT of people.

I'd say it deserves a sticky personally. That way its up top and easily found.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby roorancher » Nov 01 2019, 5:15pm

Most excellent explanation!!!
Thanks for spending your hard earned money to purchase a tuner, to do your analysis, spending the time to do it, and then presenting all of us with a well thought and easy to understand synopsis!
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby ricka182 » Nov 01 2019, 5:31pm

This is superb information.

Unless you don't want me to, I'd like to take the post in Word, clean it up, make it more "document" style, and then repost is as a sticky, under your name of course for full, and deserved credit..
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby CKNSLS » Nov 01 2019, 5:33pm

So-yes

On newer trucks a "change event" will show-requiring an "explanation" by the owner if the motor has issues-and requires warranty repairs.

Slim-but it's a risk. Do yo feel lucky-with your $50,000.00 truck?



Mike-thanks for your effort. Everybody's time is valuable.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby JSDelaware » Nov 01 2019, 6:16pm

Thanks for all the good info, Mike !

At least now I can weigh the risks and make an informed decision,
my best guess about something like a transfer case failure was that it is NOT standard operating procedure for GM to analyse your pcm and try to deny that kind of repair,
but it is good to hear confirmation from someone in the know.
That was a big part of my worry, getting nickel and dimed for every damn thing that might go wrong after a tune.

Thanks again for the great info.
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Re: Warranty and Tuning as of 2019

Postby Brwk » Nov 01 2019, 6:23pm

Thank you for your time looking into this. At least for me, not going to even think about it this time.
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