jQuery not supported.



FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt.

NBS stereo grounding seat tracks

FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt.

Postby adriver [OP] » Apr 29 2021, 1:32am

Its mentioned so many times, in so many threads; that when you ground an amp, you grind away the paint on the seat tracks to mount the grounding bolt, STOP doing that. (My guess is this is the same for other models, but I am referring to NBS models).

I never liked that idea, and bought 10ft alligator clips so just so I could test it out. When I checked resistance on my amp's ground, while I had it mounted without a seat in place, I was getting 3.0 ohms of resistance. When I removed the paint directly to the floor, (below where the tracks mount,) and checked ground on the floor of the cab, I get 3.1 ohms of resistance. I get less resistance even without a seat in the way. (I get 1.7 ohms from frame under the door to grounding terminal).

When the seat is mounted: unless you ground away the paint underneath the tracks on the floor, and the bottom of the tracks, then there is no way a circuit is going to go that way. What you are also doing is creating the potential for you to become a circuit, (vehicle running, wet outside and standing in a puddle, then maybe grab the manual seat adjuster)... You're only creating a potential hazard.

If you remove the seat's rear bolt/seat, and look through the cab floor you will see the metal frame. That is where it is grounding too. The path of least resistance, is not through the seat tracks, the cab floor, then to the frame. The path of least resistance is from your grounding cable, THROUGH THE BOLT, to the frame. I'm running a total of (1800 watts/12v =) 150 amps through that grounding bolt with no problem. If you want, and I did, you can upgrade the factory bolt to copper or aluminum. The threads are M12x1.75. If you are going much more, then I would upgrade that bolt.
Original Poster
adriver
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Posts: 547
Topics: 21
Images: 4
Joined: Mar 30 2016, 2:17am
Years of membership: 5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Location: S. Texas
Year: 2002
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Reg cab 2wd 4.8 5spd
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby WalkersWalkers is online! » Apr 29 2021, 3:04pm

Your ground should be going directly to the sheet metal, not through a track first. You are way overthinking the making yourself a circuit thing. This is 12 volts DC not AC, you’d have a hard time hurting yourself doing that no matter how hard you tried.
WalkersWalkers is online!
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Posts: 3093
Topics: 75
Joined: Sep 01 2017, 12:06am
Years of membership: 3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Year: 2013
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Ext cab 2500 4x4
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby adriver [OP] » Apr 29 2021, 10:13pm

Yeah I had the making you a circuit thing wrong. It might not for you, but it does still have MORE potential than nothing if something falls underneath or you mount an amplifier under there, (so not for you, but could for other electronics).

You're not going to get a lug to fit under the tracks. The common advice on here is to use the seat's mounting bolt on the rear tracks as the ground, and to remove the paint on the tracks below the cable's grounding mount point. That's not the best way to do it.

What "sheet metal point" do you think you can ground to inside the cab? That's not the common suggestion, nor is it even an option anywhere other than: welding on a bolt, drilling through the sheet metal so you can add a bolt, or using the spare tire tools bolt.

Lets just assume you want to go ahead and use one of those three. When I tested resistance going from bare metal on the cab floor to ground; I get a higher resistance that way, than when I went from: the amplifiers grounding terminal (through the cable, through the seat bolt (without the seats installed), which threads into the frame. The path of least resistance is not through the sheet metal, its through the bolt.
Original Poster
adriver
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Posts: 547
Topics: 21
Images: 4
Joined: Mar 30 2016, 2:17am
Years of membership: 5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Location: S. Texas
Year: 2002
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Reg cab 2wd 4.8 5spd
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby WalkersWalkers is online! » Apr 30 2021, 2:05am

Your test method is likely suspect. Self drilling sheet metal tek screws are a pretty common way to get a ground buff the paint off with a flap wheel and put it anywhere you want.
WalkersWalkers is online!
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Posts: 3093
Topics: 75
Joined: Sep 01 2017, 12:06am
Years of membership: 3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Year: 2013
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Ext cab 2500 4x4
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby adriver [OP] » Apr 30 2021, 2:37am

Walkers wrote:Your test method is likely suspect.



In what way? Do you think I don't know what the difference is between a 0 and 1, or know the difference between paint and no paint? In what way is your guess, better than my test?


Walkers wrote:Self drilling sheet metal tek screws are a pretty common way to get a ground buff the paint off with a flap wheel and put it anywhere you want.

So your suggestion is that adding holes, and removing paint is better than doing less work, and knowing why?

Your response is the reason people just went with this method for 15 years. I wanted to know more so I bought longer alligator clips so I could check for myself. Do you have ANY REASON AT ALL to think that is better, or are you just trying to argue when you really don't know? Have you ever bothered to look at the underside of a NBS cab? You'll see the entire cab is painted. Meaning that there is paint between the cab and the frame. The seat bolts thread into bare metal.
Original Poster
adriver
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Posts: 547
Topics: 21
Images: 4
Joined: Mar 30 2016, 2:17am
Years of membership: 5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Location: S. Texas
Year: 2002
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Reg cab 2wd 4.8 5spd
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby WalkersWalkers is online! » Apr 30 2021, 3:48am

My suspicion is that you are using test results that validate a theory that you have, basically result shopping. Your ‘making yourself a battery’ theory proves you are not well grounded (pun intended) in electrical theory. I have studied and worked on it in an industrial setting for decades (granted it has been 15 years since I left that job and started my own welding contracting company).
There will be zero potential difference between the two points so long as you have good contact. So your potential difference is suspect. Now why is that? Likely there is some interference in the point you are using. What is causing a difference? Most likely there is a paint or coating you are not getting through with your alligator clips. You need to buff through any surface coating or oxidation to get a better reading on it.
WalkersWalkers is online!
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Posts: 3093
Topics: 75
Joined: Sep 01 2017, 12:06am
Years of membership: 3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
Year: 2013
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Ext cab 2500 4x4
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby adriver [OP] » Apr 30 2021, 4:08am

I was tired, get over it. I was wrong, thats twice now. You're using that to try to validate your point by saying I'm wrong there, so I'm wrong entirely.

"There will be zero potential difference between the two points so long as you have good contact"
- The cab has paint on all sides of it. EVEN IF we say I have the sheet metal point wrong, YOU are not accounting for the fact that there would be paint between the cab and the frame on the cab. That is not going to be easily removed, and its asinine to try when the bolt itself goes from the grounding cable's lug to the frame.

EVEN IF, AGAIN: You're still not accounting for the seat brackets. You can not mount a lug to the inner seat bracket rear bolt under the tracks, it won't fit. If you are going to use that bolt to ground, it has to go over the tracks.
Original Poster
adriver
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Posts: 547
Topics: 21
Images: 4
Joined: Mar 30 2016, 2:17am
Years of membership: 5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Location: S. Texas
Year: 2002
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Reg cab 2wd 4.8 5spd
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby 19trax95 » Apr 30 2021, 4:28am

You know the cab is mounted to the frame with rubber bushings right? It doesn't ground through there. There are ground straps from the cab to the frame, and cab to engine block.

I've never had an issue grinding the paint off the rear seat mounting bolts and sticking my ground between the cab floor and sear base, and tightening things back down. Have also used the seat belt bolts before too. Just sand a little of the paint off and hook my ground wire up. Granted I'm not doing a super high power system. If it were a more serious system, I may be tempted to make my own ground strap to the frame.
User avatar
19trax95
Staff Member
Staff Member
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Posts: 17986
Topics: 140
Images: 3
Joined: Apr 17 2012, 1:42am
Years of membership: 9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
Location: Eastern PA
Year: 2015
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Variant: High Country
Extra Info: 2500 Duramax
Group Membership:
Automotive Technicians
How-to Authors
TOTM Winner
Member Extraordinaire
Global moderators
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby adriver [OP] » Apr 30 2021, 4:50am

I did, but apparently not at the moment. So If you mount it to the seat, you are grounding through the straps. If you ground it through the seat bolt, you are grounding to the frame.

I'm not saying the way of grinding away the paint doesn't work, but I am saying its not only not necessary, I also don't think its the best way to do it, and this was supposed to be why.

Originally I planned to run a grounding strap under the cab directly to that bolt then to the frame. When I checked it I got 3.0 ohms when I probed the threads, and 3.0 ohms from the amplifiers ground, so I knew the only way to improve it was under the truck. It was less resistance than the bare metal, and even from the frame directly it wasn't much more. It didn't seem necessary after that.

(just to throw some BS out there) - I know this will sound ridiculous to some, but just sayin; more resistance means you lose power, so it won't be as loud. For that .1 ohms of resistance were talking about .05 (1/20th) of a decibel if even that much.
Original Poster
adriver
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Combustion on 5 pistons [L2]
Posts: 547
Topics: 21
Images: 4
Joined: Mar 30 2016, 2:17am
Years of membership: 5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
Location: S. Texas
Year: 2002
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Extra Info: Reg cab 2wd 4.8 5spd
Group Membership:
Registered users

Re: FYI, STOP removing the paint to ground to the seat bolt

Postby 19trax95 » Apr 30 2021, 11:58am

The only bolts from the cab that go to the frame are the cab mounts. And they are on rubber bushings. Take the cab mount bolts off, and the entire cab will lift right off the frame (obviously there is some harnesses, steering shaft, coolant lines, etc too).

Besides that, no bolts go to the frame. The seats, seat belts, etc are all just into the cab. So no matter what, or where you ground anything to in the cab, you'll be going through the grounding straps that go from the cab to the frame.

Now there will be some grounding at other places, but it will not be ideal, and isn't the "main" grounding points.
User avatar
19trax95
Staff Member
Staff Member
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Shifting into Sixth Gear! [L3]
Posts: 17986
Topics: 140
Images: 3
Joined: Apr 17 2012, 1:42am
Years of membership: 9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
Location: Eastern PA
Year: 2015
Make/Model: Chevrolet Silverado
Variant: High Country
Extra Info: 2500 Duramax
Group Membership:
Automotive Technicians
How-to Authors
TOTM Winner
Member Extraordinaire
Global moderators
Registered users
Next

Return to Mobile Electronics

 

  • Similar topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Common search terms

rear using think still right work bolt stop removing paint ground seat engine make back truck same lift

It is currently May 12 2021, 11:45pm

  • Sponsor
Login  •  Register
Mobile Electronics Forum
Mobile ElectronicsTalk about audio systems and mobile video, navigation systems and GPS, car alarms and security systems. Discuss auto competition with amplifiers, subwoofers, sound quality, and SPL. Entertain with satellite radio, CB radio, DVD players, and game consoles.
To create a new topic in Mobile Electronics, click this button:
Previous topic Next topic
Sitewide News Sitemaps & Feeds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sogou [Bot] and 24 guests