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New System Considered

Re: New System Considered

Postby WolfMonster » Feb 09 2020, 9:54pm

I don't put too much stock in these brand name audio systems that can come stock on a truck or car.

F**d has Bang & Olufsen, an expensive brand that is supposed to be really high end equipment. (Pricey and doesn't deliver all that great of sound)
Chevy has Bose. Enough said there as many an audiophile would turn their nose up at this brand. (it has its haters.)... Sounds good until you want some volume out of them... don't crank them up or your sound quality will take a serious nose dive.
Then, I forget who it is (Chrystler?) has used Harmon-Kardon.

With these brand names that are supposed to deliver high end sound. They all fall short sooner or later... plus at least with the case of the B&O audio package, you can get an aftermarket system that will blow it away both in power and sound quality.


FoxProDenali wrote:
SierraWilks wrote:{...} The compensatory measures like time alignment, equilzation, etc are your only resort, sadly. {...}

These do exist, sometimes within the head unit, sometimes as module added to the system.

FoxProDenali wrote:I have to correct myself and say the speaker with the lowest distortion and the most amount of power will sound *the best.*

That is true. But... speakers can add their own "color" sometimes, which can make a difference to some on how they sound in the environment they're used in.

FoxProDenali wrote:If it's not loud enough, you need more gain. So you need to repeat that process. Notice you're never cranking the HU volume to max, nor are you subject to the amount of distortion that's inherent in the system. It's the basis for proper tuning, the rest has to come AFTER this.

Sometimes this means you need a more powerful amplifier, depending on what you're working with... Your best adjustment is to adjust for max clean sound from your power amp at where you find max, or just under max clean output from your HU. Still... you also have to remember that to make your system seem 2x as loud as before, you need to increase your power amp's output power by 10x... or get more efficient speakers.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby Rambodog » Feb 09 2020, 10:24pm

You can't compare the "Brand Name" stuff that is factory in some vehicle makes. The auto manufacturer sets the stage for what is to be built and to what spec. Bang and Olufsen or BOSE ect... are not built to the same spec that, that brand would sell in their consumer product line. Apples to Oranges.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby WolfMonster » Feb 09 2020, 10:39pm

Rambodog wrote:You can't compare the "Brand Name" stuff that is factory in some vehicle makes. The auto manufacturer sets the stage for what is to be built and to what spec. Bang and Olufsen or BOSE ect... are not built to the same spec that, that brand would sell in their consumer product line. Apples to Oranges.


I don't disagree.... in car/truck audio, what you're doing is paying for the name. Specs don't come close to what the brand name would be now, or back when the cork-sniffing audiophile would think about possibly nodding their approval, in home audio.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby FoxProDenali » Feb 10 2020, 5:27pm

Amp power is like money in the bank; can’t have too much and it’s there WHEN you need it.

WHEN do you need amp power. Read the gain setting ‘tutorial’ I wrote. Play the most dynamic music you have with the DMM on any speaker outs. You will see what I’m taking about.

Louder sounds better. It’s been proven. Distortion sounds the worst in the 2-5 kHz region ..which is where the sound stage frequency centered. Therefore you need ample CLEAN power that’s matched from L to R to create the illusion. Factory HUs put out 25W RMS. Totally fine for listening at medium vol in your garage. There’s more than 25w of constant noise driving down the road to compete with.

Speakers have ‘color’ due to their inherent design but also due to distortion. This is not subjective, it can be measured with a Klippel machine. Most of that data on car and home audio drivers was posted on DIYmobleaudio at one point.

Matching amp RMS to speaker rated RMS is marketing nonsense. Put 500 watts on your tweeters and set gains correctly....or 5 watts...still the same. Measure it!!
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Re: New System Considered

Postby FoxProDenali » Feb 10 2020, 6:14pm

Check that. The RATM track I was thinking of was Take The Power Back. The opening kick bass and plucks should sound like they’re coming from beyond the windshield, maybe hard center right above your HU.

Once your gains are set correctly, you can run it WOT and it still should sound clean.

If you have the proper crossover and cut set on your subwoofer, it should sound like your dash is getting hit with a hammer. You’ll also have to play with phase, either 0 or 180* with the fronts. I almost always ran mine 180* out. It actually depends how far your head is from the sub (due to wavelength).

Have fun. :mrgreen:
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Re: New System Considered

Postby WolfMonster » Feb 10 2020, 9:01pm

FoxProDenali wrote:Amp power is like money in the bank; can’t have too much and it’s there WHEN you need it.

WHEN do you need amp power. Read the gain setting ‘tutorial’ I wrote. Play the most dynamic music you have with the DMM on any speaker outs. You will see what I’m taking about.

Most DMMs are not fast enough to capture all the details ESPECIALLY with dynamics in play...
I agree it is good to have extra power for dynamic headroom, but you also have to remember outside of classical, most commercial music is compressed, especially in digital form. You don't want the power mismatch too far in favor of the amp.

FoxProDenali wrote:Louder sounds better. It’s been proven. Distortion sounds the worst in the 2-5 kHz region ..which is where the sound stage frequency centered. Therefore you need ample CLEAN power that’s matched from L to R to create the illusion. Factory HUs put out 25W RMS. Totally fine for listening at medium vol in your garage. There’s more than 25w of constant noise driving down the road to compete with.


Yes, clean power. The fact that 2-5K is worse sounding when distortion is present has alot to do with the fact the human ear is more sensitive in that range. I can't speak for modern cars and trucks, but older vehicles in general only had a few watts per channel, it's why manufacturers could tout 15W, 20W, 25W a channel on their aftermarket radios and amps and actually deliver a better, and louder sound.

FoxProDenali wrote:Speakers have ‘color’ due to their inherent design but also due to distortion. This is not subjective, it can be measured with a Klippel machine. Most of that data on car and home audio drivers was posted on DIYmobleaudio at one point.

How it sounds to a person (not test equipment) IS subjective. The fact that it, distortion, inductance factors, frequency response, can be measured and all that affects the sound is indeed objective.

FoxProDenali wrote:Matching amp RMS to speaker rated RMS is marketing nonsense. Put 500 watts on your tweeters and set gains correctly....or 5 watts...still the same. Measure it!!


Not quite.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFJq6Gw7C4 Amp is putting out clean power, speaker fried (You can blame the brand if you like, Blaupunkt isn't what it was. Still... you can't argue that it didn't burn up being over-powered.) Mind you this is a subwoofer,
anther example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTA5zdPgqc

A tweeter usually sees less power because there is less energy required, so yes, you can have a larger power difference with a tweeter.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby SierraWilks [OP] » Feb 12 2020, 7:37pm

installed the Kenwood's in the dash today.....haven't driven the truck yet but I THINK it sounds better.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby LRod » Feb 13 2020, 11:45pm

Do the Haynes or Chilton manuals show some sort of schematic/pictures of what these trucks have in terms of the sound system?
I'd love to simply replace the current speakers with something better. I have no clue though what my current truck has since it's not visible. I'd like to also see what I would have to disassemble in order to do the upgrade. 2019 LD, LT, double cab!
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Re: New System Considered

Postby roorancher » Feb 13 2020, 11:59pm

Go to Crutchfields website or call them. They're really knowledgeable.
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Re: New System Considered

Postby SierraWilks [OP] » Feb 14 2020, 12:00am

There are tons of YouTube videos showing you how to replace any part of the system you desire....components would be determined by Bose or non Bose systems.
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