As far as going to a larger diameter rotor with new calipers. This can surely be done. Though as you said there is very little information on doing so. One thing to consider if you do go that route is. Will you need a different wheel? That is a lot of extra cost to add on top of the actual brake upgrade. Even an extra half inch to diameter could cause this issue if the actual rotor or caliper are thicker.

I have now run the Powerstop cross drilled and slotted rotors on 4 trucks. Have heard people often come up with negatives about both. In my experience. If you maintain your brakes, follow any break in procedure that they may have and don't take things to a clearly stupid extreme. There is no downside to either or both. In fact I have seen only advantages. Know a lot of other people on here also run the Powerstop kits with no issues. There have been a few no doubt that were not satisfied. But being my experience and the experience of others I know. I believe those who were not satisfied, expected results like that from a multi thousand dollar Brembo kit. Those were just unreasonable. Currently have about 22,000 miles on my set of Powerstop Z36 Extreme Truck and Tow. I haul construction materials and tools through the Pocono Mountains of PA going 116 miles per work day on average. Sometimes with a utility trailer and sometimes just the bed loaded, so you can be sure I am not taking it easy on them. I saw a massive improvement over stock pads and rotors. No brake fade coming down a mountain and it takes less pressure on the pedal until they start to grab. I've seen all sorts of mods done to brakes on trucks. For my money I stand by Powerstop as the best bang for the buck you can get on the brake systems in these trucks. They are available as complete kits with or without calipers.

 

Is there something in particular about the stock brakes that aren't enough? I haven't towed, but one thing I noticed about my 07 was how good of brakes it has, far superior to the rather squishy feeling brakes my 02 Trailblazer has.

 

SparkyJJO wrote
Is there something in particular about the stock brakes that aren't enough? I haven't towed, but one thing I noticed about my 07 was how good of brakes it has, far superior to the rather squishy feeling brakes my 02 Trailblazer has.

In my experience on my 04 Sierra. Absolutely the brakes needed an upgrade. If not hauling the weight I often do it was not an issue often. Even then though I did notice a lot of fade. Particularly on long grades. Coming down Fancy Gap on I-77 (a 6 mile grade that descends 1,500 foot) with stock brakes was a terrifying experience and I was not loaded heavy on that one. Just vacation stuff really. The brake fade that set in was very bad. If it had gotten much worse I might have considered the runaway truck ramps. Since upgrading, I would not even consider driving with stock brakes again for any amount of time.

 

As far as going to a larger diameter rotor with new calipers. This can surely be done. Though as you said there is very little information on doing so. One thing to consider if you do go that route is. Will you need a different wheel? That is a lot of extra cost to add on top of the actual brake upgrade. Even an extra half inch to diameter could cause this issue if the actual rotor or caliper are thicker.

I have now run the Powerstop cross drilled and slotted rotors on 4 trucks. Have heard people often come up with negatives about both. In my experience. If you maintain your brakes, follow any break in procedure that they may have and don't take things to a clearly stupid extreme. There is no downside to either or both. In fact I have seen only advantages. Know a lot of other people on here also run the Powerstop kits with no issues. There have been a few no doubt that were not satisfied. But being my experience and the experience of others I know. I believe those who were not satisfied, expected results like that from a multi thousand dollar Brembo kit. Those were just unreasonable. Currently have about 22,000 miles on my set of Powerstop Z36 Extreme Truck and Tow. I haul construction materials and tools through the Pocono Mountains of PA going 116 miles per work day on average. Sometimes with a utility trailer and sometimes just the bed loaded, so you can be sure I am not taking it easy on them. I saw a massive improvement over stock pads and rotors. No brake fade coming down a mountain and it takes less pressure on the pedal until they start to grab. I've seen all sorts of mods done to brakes on trucks. For my money I stand by Powerstop as the best bang for the buck you can get on the brake systems in these trucks. They are available as complete kits with or without calipers.

I have the factory 20" wheels so whatever I decide to run should fit with plenty of room.

The PowerStop kit is probably the best priced brake upgrade kit that I found but I WILL NOT put cross-drilled rotors on a truck. They serve absolutely no purpose on a truck except to look cool, chew up brake pads and empty your wallet. Don't get me wrong, I think cross-drilled rotors are great when used in the application they were purpose built for. It's just that daily driving and towing/hauling is not that application. I think the improvements you saw had more to do with the increased thermal mass of the rotor and the caliper design/size than the cross-drilling and slots. Thanks for the feedback though. I do appreciate a member providing their real world experience with a brake upgrade.

 

SparkyJJO wrote
Is there something in particular about the stock brakes that aren't enough? I haven't towed, but one thing I noticed about my 07 was how good of brakes it has, far superior to the rather squishy feeling brakes my 02 Trailblazer has.

In my experience on my 04 Sierra. Absolutely the brakes needed an upgrade. If not hauling the weight I often do it was not an issue often. Even then though I did notice a lot of fade. Particularly on long grades. Coming down Fancy Gap on I-77 (a 6 mile grade that descends 1,500 foot) with stock brakes was a terrifying experience and I was not loaded heavy on that one. Just vacation stuff really. The brake fade that set in was very bad. If it had gotten much worse I might have considered the runaway truck ramps. Since upgrading, I would not even consider driving with stock brakes again for any amount of time.

This is essentially what I was going to say, though I've not had the same experience driving down Fancy Gap. For basic daily driving on flat terrain, the brakes are probably sufficient in my opinion. But in "emergency" situations and when towing/hauling, it becomes obvious how undersized the brakes are.

 

SparkyJJO wrote
Is there something in particular about the stock brakes that aren't enough? I haven't towed, but one thing I noticed about my 07 was how good of brakes it has, far superior to the rather squishy feeling brakes my 02 Trailblazer has.

In my experience on my 04 Sierra. Absolutely the brakes needed an upgrade. If not hauling the weight I often do it was not an issue often. Even then though I did notice a lot of fade. Particularly on long grades. Coming down Fancy Gap on I-77 (a 6 mile grade that descends 1,500 foot) with stock brakes was a terrifying experience and I was not loaded heavy on that one. Just vacation stuff really. The brake fade that set in was very bad. If it had gotten much worse I might have considered the runaway truck ramps. Since upgrading, I would not even consider driving with stock brakes again for any amount of time.

Brakes on the NBS and NNBS are way different. The NBS felt like my Trailblazer (mushy) but the NNBS is leagues different, granted I haven't tried mine on a 6 mile grade lol. I saw the OP has an NNBS which is why I asked. Mine grabs and stops my truck quite effortlessly, and they are even OEM equipment (dealer put new brakes on it before putting the truck on the lot).

I totally get desiring to upgrade the brakes on an NBS.

 

I upgraded to stock size EBC slotted and dimpled rotors with EBC 7000 series pads. Truck stops amazing and made a huge improvement while towing 6500lbs. There are big brake kits available for these trucks but are very expensive and you would also need 20" of bigger rims. 17s barley clear the stock 13" brakes, 13.5" brakes need 18's and 14" brakes require 20's or larger.

 

The calipers are bolted in place so how do you propose to clear say a 1 inch larger rotor and make it so it doesn't rub the caliper?

 

Just to point out. Cross drilled rotors serve a few purposes. The first is heat. When the brake pad grabs the rotor, it creates friction, which creates heat. If that heat can't escape, it leads to brake fade, which reduces the brakes' stopping power. Heat is reduced both through increased air flow as well as having less thermal material. The second reason is gas build up. This actually isn't much of a problem any more; however, the materials used in some older types of brake pads caused gas to build up between the rotors and pads. That gas also limited stopping power. The last reason is water. If a car drives through a puddle, a carwash or even a rainstorm, the brake rotors can get wet. A wet brake rotor is slippery and difficult for the brake pads to grab. Having drilled holes on a brake rotor makes it easy for heat, gas and water to be quickly moved away from the rotor surface, keeping the brake performance strong.

Putting cheaply made cross drilled rotors on anything is a recipe for disaster. Having put a few hundred thousand miles on NBS trucks and having had a few different rotor and pad combinations. I can say with 100% certainty that on long grades hauling heavy load. The cross drilling does have an effect to reduce brake fade.

 

I don't run drilled or slotted rotors on any street application, you will never benefit from the heat reduction verses sweep loss on anything but a track car. I always spec blank rotors for my use.

 

The calipers are bolted in place so how do you propose to clear say a 1 inch larger rotor and make it so it doesn't rub the caliper?

The Summit kit comes with caliper relocation brackets to address this.

Agree that if you're not increasing the swept area with bigger pads you're not getting all you can out of bigger rotors. However, by moving the caliper farther away from the center of the wheel you are increasing the lever arm so you'll get more stopping power. Pads with a higher coefficient of friction will help too, but will reduce rotor life.

 

Just to point out. Cross drilled rotors serve a few purposes. The first is heat. When the brake pad grabs the rotor, it creates friction, which creates heat. If that heat can't escape, it leads to brake fade, which reduces the brakes' stopping power.

I would clarify that brake fade is caused from adding more heat to the rotor than it can reject in a given amount of time. The rotor doesn't just decide to hold on to heat and not release it because you're getting heavy on the brakes.

Heat is reduced both through increased air flow as well as having less thermal material.

First, let's not confuse heat (Q) with temperature (T). Yes, a smaller amount of thermal material will hold less heat, but that's not what we're after with a big brake upgrade. We want more heat capacity via increased thermal mass. Thermal mass can be increased by making the rotor larger in diameter and/or by making the rotor thicker. Increased thermal mass means the rotor can hold more heat energy (Q) without the brake system experiencing as much of an increase in temperature (T). It can be a hard concept to understand at first, but you have to realize that heat is not a synonym for temperature... Rotors are essentially a large heat sink for the heat generated by the pad rubbing against the rotor. If you drill holes in that heat sink, you've made that heat sink less effective. Heat is rejected primarily through the vanes, not by the introduction of cross-drilled holes. The way it works is heat is absorbed at the surface of the rotor and pulled into the center of the rotor (because it is cooler than the rotor surface) where it is rejected from the rotor. The better the design of the vanes, the more efficiently the rotor can reject the heat. This is why you'll see higher end rotors that have curved vanes vs straight vanes; the curved vanes allow better airflow which increases the cooling capability.

The second reason is gas build up. This actually isn't much of a problem any more; however, the materials used in some older types of brake pads caused gas to build up between the rotors and pads. That gas also limited stopping power.

Since brake pads don't use the material and compounds that create these gases, this is no longer a valid argument for choosing cross-drilled rotors.

The last reason is water. If a car drives through a puddle, a carwash or even a rainstorm, the brake rotors can get wet. A wet brake rotor is slippery and difficult for the brake pads to grab. Having drilled holes on a brake rotor makes it easy for heat, gas and water to be quickly moved away from the rotor surface, keeping the brake performance strong.

If that were true, you'd constantly be activating your ABS or locking up your brakes (if you didn't have ABS) in the rain anytime you pressed the brake pedal. Additionally, the centripetal force from the rotor turning along with the fact that your brake pads ride against the rotors makes it kind of hard for water to accumulate and make the rotor "slippery".

Putting cheaply made cross drilled rotors on anything is a recipe for disaster. Having put a few hundred thousand miles on NBS trucks and having had a few different rotor and pad combinations. I can say with 100% certainty that on long grades hauling heavy load. The cross drilling does have an effect to reduce brake fade.

As I've mentioned previously in this post as well in a previous post, I highly doubt your reduced brake fade was a result of cross-drilled rotors. It is most likely to be a result of bigger/better caliper design or pad compound as well as increased thermal mass from the rotor (either a larger rotor or a thicker rotor).

 

Brakes on the NBS and NNBS are way different. The NBS felt like my Trailblazer (mushy) but the NNBS is leagues different, granted I haven't tried mine on a 6 mile grade lol. I saw the OP has an NNBS which is why I asked. Mine grabs and stops my truck quite effortlessly, and they are even OEM equipment (dealer put new brakes on it before putting the truck on the lot).

I totally get desiring to upgrade the brakes on an NBS.

I will say the brakes on this truck are much better than on my dad's 03 Suburban. They are exactly like you mention on your Trailblazer, mushy. Of course, it probably helps that the rotors on my truck are bigger and it weighs about 1000lb less. For the majority of the time, these brakes perform admirably. Like I've mentioned previously, it's those "emergency" stop situations as well as when towing/hauling (or worse when you combine the two situations) that whoa-ing 5000+ lbs can get scary.

 

If your trailer is set up properly you should not see much increase in stress put on the tow vehicle brakes..

 

The brakes on my '13 are excellent as is-feel and stopping distances. The main issue with them is heat buildup, especially in the rear drums. The best upgrade for the trucks with drum brakes is a rear disc conversion. With the '14-up trucks coming with them as standard equipment, finding parts is super easy. The front brakes are virtually identical on the GMT900 and the K2XX. The main difference is the rotor, which has the same dimensions and fitment, but is treated differently. They are the Dura-Life rotors. The part number for them is 23144340 if the ones on your GMT900 are warped or worn, and require replacement.

 

Ok so for those of you having brake problems on hills I'll give some info that will solve your problem for free!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so the first thing we are going to talk about is proper trailer brake set up.

If your trailer brakes are working as they should, and your brake controller (If you are using electric brakes) or your hydraulic brake actuator (if your using a pressure brake system) is set up correctly your tow rig should only be dealing with about 10%-15% of your trailers total weight. If your tow vehicle can not deal with this, you ether have a problem with the braking system such as old fluid, worn parts, are some other malfunction of the system, or you have the tow vehicle over loaded. Get this fixed before doing any further towing.
If the tow vehicle has no problems with its braking system, check to make sure your not over loading the vehicle.
Many people see the sticker on the hitch of there truck say that the HITCH is rated for up to 10,000lb. That dose NOT mean the tow rig is!
Check your owners manual for the correct towing capacity of your vehicle. Things such as gearing can have a big effect on tow ratings.
Example: 2007 Yukon with 3:73 gears is rated for 6300lb. The the same truck with a 4:10 gear is rated for 7,300lb. The hitch shows a max load of 10,000lb.

Now that we have all that sorted out its time to talk about the driver.
The driver is more often then not the cause of brake fade problems as they are not using the correct braking technique, and are actually causing brake fade in both the tow rig, and trailer as a result.

When you descend a steep grade you have to do a few things to prevent lose of brakes, (Brake fade) or lose of control of your vehicle.

First, understand that you have a heavy vehicle, and that you can NOT just drive down the grade like you are in a normal car. There is a reason there are signs on most of these grades limiting the speed for semis. When hauling a heavy load you need to travel at lower speeds when descending so that you can safely stop the rig if needed. Far to many people go down steep grades the same way they would without there trailer back there. This is not only completely wrong, but vary unsafe!

So reduce your speed on steep down grades. A good rule is what ever speed you would be doing going up, you should not exceed going down.

The next thing you need to understand is proper gear selection. What ever gear you would need to go up that grade, you should be in the same gear going down it. So before you start to descend a steep grade shift your trans down to the gear you would need to climb that grade. You will not hurt your truck doing this. Just be sure not to let it get over red line, and try not to keep it over 5k for a gas motor for to long.

Now that you have your truck and trailer set up correctly, and you are in the proper gear, at a safe speed to descend a steep grade lets talk about the big thing. Proper use of the brakes.
You do NOT under any condition use the brakes the entire way down a grade. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need to do whats called "controlled braking". This is what semis do to prevent overheating there brakes.

The first thing you need to do is determent your safe speed. This is going to be the same, or slower then the speed you could go up the same grade. This will be your MAX speed.

In controlled braking you will use the 5 and 7 rule, when you reach your MAX speed you start braking. Your goal is t reduce your speed to 5mph below your MAX speed in under 5 seconds. You then release the brakes and coast. When you reach your MAX safe speed again you will start this process over again. If you reach your MAX safe speed again in less then 7 seconds you are going TO FAST! Reduce your MAX safe speed by 5mph and try again. Or if you have selected the wrong gear, shift down another gear if possible. (Do not over rev the motor!)
Continue this process until you have the 5 and 7 rule working for you.

This will have you on the brakes about 40% of the time, and off them about 60% of the time. This will give them the time they need to cool. Heat is what causes brake fade. Your brakes need time to cool to shed that heat to prevent fade.

If you use this process correctly, you should have no problems with brake fade. And you spent 0 cash unless your braking system had a problem. If it did, you should have fixed it any way.

Now if you still have fade, and you have no problems with your braking system or trailer setup, and your not overloading the tow rig, you may have the wrong/ cheap brake pads.

Pads have much more to do with fade then rotors. A cheap pad may work great around town, or even in light towing on flat land. But get it to hot and will start to gas. This causes a spongy feeling to the brakes, and fade.
Change your pads to something that can deal with the higher temps that towing can cause.

Most stock pads will work fine if your trailer and tow rig are set up correctly, and you use the correct gear and the 5 and 7 rule.

Many cheap parts store pads will over heat.

EBC makes some vary good pads that can deal with high heat.

Be careful about selecting your pads tho. You do NOT need a full race pad here guys. Bigger is not always better. If you get a pad that is to aggressive, it will not work well when it is cold. So you will have mushy brakes that feel like brake fade when ever you have not used them for a while. Then when they heat up they will work good. This would be the EBC orange pads. These are the WRONG pad for a tow rig.

EBC actually makes a pad just for trucks and SUVs that need some extra stopping power.
http://ebcbrakes.com/product/extra-duty-light-truck-jeep-and-suv-brake-pads/
There truck yellow stuff pad is also a great option!
http://ebcbrakes.com/product/yellowstuff-high-friction-truck-sport-brake-pads/

This is NOT a replacement for proper braking. You can and will cook these pads if you are simply riding the brakes down the entire grade.

Also note that if you have cooked a set of pads to the point of fade, you have probably boiled your brake fluid as well. It will need to be changed. It will cause a spongy feeling in the brakes after it has been boiled.
Brake fluid also fails over time as it will become darker and contaminated with debris, and water. There is a recommended change interval for brake fluid for a reason.

I have been driving for a living for most of my adult life. I have taught classes on this many times in the past, and currently do 2 classes a year for the company I work for. I have logged well over 1.5 million safe miles at this point and have never had a chargeable accident.
This information is meant to help others.
Take from it what you will.
I live by it, and it has served me well for many many years.

 

Ok so for those of you having brake problems on hills I'll give some info that will solve your problem for free!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, what a great write up.

thanks especially for the info on the EBC pads.

 

Ok so for those of you having brake problems on hills I'll give some info that will solve your problem for free!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, what a great write up.

thanks especially for the info on the EBC pads.

Thank you!

EBC is only one of many pad manufacturers out there that make better then stock pads for trucks and cars.

The problem is there are lots of them that make pads that are no where near as good as stock.

So be careful what you buy.

 

That is excellent advice for towing, badmunky. I'll be sure to use a lot of this next time I'm towing on a grade.

I feel like there's been a lot of good knowledge shared in this thread, but unfortunately none of it relates to my original question lol. Has anyone on this board used that Summit brake kit and have any feedback?

 

NBS brakes SUCK. Seriously they are mushy and terrible. Even with in a 2500HD with hydroboost they are terrible compared to even a NNBS 1500 with disc/drum.

I never had issues stopping, even on trucks with smaller setups. Key is using good components like powerslot rotors or good blanks like brembo and ceramic or good semi metallic pads. Also traveling the proper speed help as well as trailer brakes. I took a damn toyota T100 with 15" front brakes and decent drums towing an mr2 racecar on a a uhual trailer through the mountains of PA-didnt have any issues.

 

Not going to quote and try to address every single thing in all the posts and replies. Can say that I never overload the truck or trailer. Have been towing for years and worked in a diesel shop for a few years. I understand all about the weights, tongue weight, weight per axle, having a balanced trailer and everything properly secured. As has been said by multiple people. Brakes on the NBS trucks are absolutely horrid. Even with everything properly set up on long grades, especially highways that cross over mountains with constant elevation change. It is harder on a vehicle. Not just brakes but everything that is moving. I've gone over my complete brake system. Flushed and put all new fluid in. Plan on putting on braided brake hoses since I know it will help as well. Even with no trailer, empty bed and no tools. I noticed that these NBS trucks had worse braking than some of the others I drive for work when partially loaded. I've had great luck and good life out of the Z36 on a 99 Silverado, 01 S10, 03 S10, 04 Sierra and 99 S10. The 99 Silverado I put a lot more miles on than the others. Well over 200k myself. I tried a few brake kits on that truck.
EBC S14 Greenstuff and RK rotors performed great but did not last long.

Centric Premium Front and Rear Disk and Pad Kit. Never got to actually use them as I got the complete kit through Autopartswarehouse. It had a warped rotor so I sent it back. Received a 2nd kit that also had a warped rotor. I decided 2 chances was enough.

Then I got the Powerstop. That has been my go to kit ever since because of both performance and life. I'm not expecting an upgrade like this to take the place of a big brake upgrade though. Just to give me a bit more stopping power and consistent performance. That is has done well.

I have never driven an NBS with rear drums. See that there are a lot of them out there. Both my 04 Sierra and 99 Silverado came with 4 wheel disk though. I could just imagine that it would be worse with rear drum.

 

A quick thanks to Badmunkey for the braking write up. I've always done something much the same to the 5-7 rules you outlined. Never really had a specific guideline though. That was very informative and will give me a more definitive judge of both speed and brake use.

 

I just swapped out the OEM rotors on my 2013 Sierra with the 2014-2016 Duralife front rotors, and the 2014-2016 GM pads. The braking difference is noticeable. My original pads were only worn 1/16" in 23k miles including several towing road trips. The pad life on these trucks is very good. My original rotors were beginning to shake at high speeds, so off they went.

The part numbers for those interested:

Pads 23135915 or AC Delco 171-1129 $112 list $71 wholesale

Rotors 23144340 or AC Delco 177-1163 $136 list $86.36 wholesale

This was 100 percent direct bolt on with absolutely no modifications necessary to the truck.

 

I just swapped out the OEM rotors on my 2013 Sierra with the 2014-2016 Duralife front rotors, and the 2014-2016 GM pads. The braking difference is noticeable. My original pads were only worn 1/16" in 23k miles including several towing road trips. The pad life on these trucks is very good. My original rotors were beginning to shake at high speeds, so off they went.

The part numbers for those interested:

Pads 23135915 or AC Delco 171-1129 $112 list $71 wholesale

Rotors 23144340 or AC Delco 177-1163 $136 list $86.36 wholesale

This was 100 percent direct bolt on with absolutely no modifications necessary to the truck.

What's the difference between the 08-13 rotors & pads and the 14-16 rotors & pads?

 

The '14-up rotors are DuraLife rotors, which are specially treated to prevent corrosion and wear. The GM-developed process is ferritic-nitro carburizing (FNC), a form of case hardening. FNC is a gaseous process that diffuses nitrogen and carbon into the metallic part following production machining of the rotor's friction surface. The rotors are super-heated at 560°C (1040°F) for up to 24 hours within a nitrogen-rich atmosphere. The nitrogen atoms bond to the surface of the steel rotor, hardening it and increasing its strength. The FNC process lays down a 10-µm-thick transfer layer across the entire rotor surface, including the center "hat" section and inside the central cooling vanes of ventilated rotors. The resulting friction surface is significantly more durable than that of a rotor without the FNC treatment, while remaining virtually impervious to corrosion and rust. The OEM pads are formulated to work with these rotors.

In the 300 miles I have used them on my truck, they have not left any dust on my rims, and the stopping distance and brake feel is better than ever.